http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_us_afghanistan

that's news.

I knew that when I voted for him.

We should be out of that country if you ask me

Taliban didn't seem to bother us too much during the 90's.

ugh.

whata douche

like George Washington said, keep out of foreign entanglements, engage in trade, not treaty, war, and nation building

and like Jefferson said, liberty at home can never be supported by our support of tyranny abroad, in fact, we lose it when we engage in wars on foreign shores.

all we want is to control the opium market and make way for the giant pipeline that's about to be built? Men in caves? Give me a fucking break.
Before someone slams me again for stating these "conspiracies" I suggest you do the research on the ties the CIA has with drug trafficking. I made a thread about the presidents brother not too long ago...

AMURIKA FUCK YA

They are after the Talibans lucky charms amirite guys!

Yesterday I had the most recommended comment on Boston.com regarding the increase in troops lol.
Surprisingly my comment about opium made it in the top 10 too. It's good to see some people waking up

Opium always wakes you up.

Trolling Boston.com is awesome.

Nobody remembered to mention the bigger news...

We are beginning withdrawal from Afghanistan in eighteen months, and explicitly committing not to occupy their country (or any country ever - in the speech last night, Obama actually went that far, I never thought I'd hear a US President say that).

It's the difference between tactics and strategy.

Going into Iraq was bad strategy because it was a lie and pointless. Not having enough troops was a bad tactic Bush purposefully used to set up an indefinite stalemate and build what he intended to be permanent bases to occupy the country and it's oil fields. Putting in more troops was a good tactic attempted when the whole thing really started to implode, but it still failed to justify the bad strategy.

Obama's strategy seems to be the opposite of Bush, and if he's using a good tactic to achieve a good strategy - a good strategy being getting the fuck out of occupying other countries - it's a good thing. Just my two cents.

After all, if Bush was elected, or McCain, we'd be in both countries FOREVER, probably even if Hillary had been elected. We might even be starting shit with Iran right now. The MIC is out of fucking control, and I'm more worried that Obama won't have time to gut it sufficiently in time for the next guy in seven years not to just pick up where Bush left off.

18 months? Wasn't it 3 years?
This is the vietnam of our generation.

Nope, July 2011 is when we begin withdrawing. Did you miss the speech last night?

write that date down there lil' johnny, and I bet you a 100 that the country will forget or something big will go down and it will get pushed back.

Then I think we've got several more presidential terms to sit through before we see an end to this.

We are currently on or ahead of schedule on Iraq withdrawal.

We were supposed to be out of all Iraqi cities by June 30 of this year and we beat the deadline by a few days.

All combat troops are scheduled to be out of Iraq by the end of next summer, and all residual US troops are scheduled out by the end of 2011; those deadlines haven't shifted yet since Obama announced them after taking office.

Bush's deadlines ALWAYS shifted, because he never intended to leave. Proof that intent makes all the difference in the world.

Why do we need deadlines? Why not just do it?

I hope he succeeds

Bush is the enemy!

The bottom line is one's view on occupation.

One on extreme end you have those in the government who are fundamentally for it so the world can be Exxon's bitch - neocons - like Bush, Cheney, McCain, Romney, Lieberman, Palin - just about every Republican in office but Ron Paul, really. On the other end, you have anti-neocons, people who believe that foreign occupation is inherently self-destructive and wrong; amazingly, despite the fact that this point of view is common sense, not to mention the view of Washington and Jefferson, we have very few people in government that fit this category - fortunately, by some incredible stroke of luck, our President is one of them. He wants the philosophy of neoconservativism disembowled and destroyed in the long-term, as evidenced by these parts of the speech last night, COMPLETELY unprecedented in history for a US President to say:

"The people of Afghanistan have endured violence for decades. They have been confronted with occupation – by the Soviet Union, and then by foreign al Qaeda fighters who used Afghan land for their own purposes. So tonight, I want the Afghan people to understand – America seeks an end to this era of war and suffering. We have no interest in occupying your country. We will support efforts by the Afghan government to open the door to those Taliban who abandon violence and respect the human rights of their fellow citizens. And we will seek a partnership with Afghanistan grounded in mutual respect – to isolate those who destroy; to strengthen those who build; to hasten the day when our troops will leave; and to forge a lasting friendship in which America is your partner, and never your patron."

But that was just the beginning, at the end he came back to the topic, and it became the crescendo of his speech:

"Our union was founded in resistance to oppression. We do not seek to occupy other nations. We will not claim another nation’s resources or target other peoples because their faith or ethnicity is different from ours. What we have fought for – and what we continue to fight for – is a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if other peoples’ children and grandchildren can live in freedom and access opportunity."

Bush would NEVER have used the word occupation to describe anything the US or its allies might do; indeed, I can't think of a modern US President that would speak in those terms, let alone take a stand against them. Speeches to the military are usually jingoistic and full of slogans, and making a point of saying this to a military audience on national television is a clear attempt to argue neoconservatism out of the bones of our institutions almost by force of will and common sense.

People who think this guy is a neocon are not paying attention.

This is an important question.

Aril brought up Vietnam before. However, our withdrawal from Vietnam was a disaster and a mess; now, Vietnam was a stupid strategic blunder from the beginning, which is the most imporant point, and we had to get out of there, but the way in which we did was also poorly executed.

Look at Iraq right now; while violence has certainly not disappeared entirely, the slow and methodical withdrawal from the country is creating a stability level we didn't have as were rushing out of Vietnam.

As anyone who has served in the past can tell you (including some very anti-war people, think the founder of dailykos, Markos Moulitsas), removing more than a brigade or two a month is simply not logistically feasible, unless you want a train wreck. Given all the vets who made that argument while still fervently opposing the Iraq War and wanting us out, I tend to think it's credible.

What's your opinion on metal music theory?

How about the Gulf of Tonkin incident being declassified and prooved to be a fake? It was used as a pretext for the Vietnam war. How come this doesn't anger people?

I wish I could type more and/or correctly on my phone.

pandering

Ha ha ha

<3 I just had nothing to say on this topic. Not informed enough.

Oh, thought you were busting on me for rambling too much in that other thread, heh.

Yes, yes I was. lol

Polls show most people in this country oppose the escalation in Afghanistan, so pandering to them would have been to say we're getting all our troops out now with no escalation.

Me too.

Hi guys. Haha This thread is funny. guys, stop it. Haha Im so funny.

misspelled gauyz

I hope people realize Obama is puppet.

"YES WE CAN!"

Regardless of why the reasons are or how many troops are there, repecting our troops is priority number one. They are dying out there.

What I don't like to see is my friends going back there after 3-4 times. If we are going to have wars like these, reinstate the draft.

fixed

I think the draft is worse than the 3-4 return trips. Why send people who don't want to go at all? At least the 3-4 timers were okay with it at least once.

This is an important point. I'm going to use anal sex to illustrate why.

Picture us all up in Afghanistan's guts, only Afghanistan is a young college co-ed, or possibly one of Ryan's nuns. You're all in there, pumping away, and they're all like, "Ok big daddy, that's enough, it was cool at first but it's starting to hurt."

Now, you can do this one of two ways. You can ease on out, or you can just whip it out. But if you whip it out, you know what you get? THE PINK SOCK.



I hope this has been educational. (I'm just glad I'm finally able to use my extensive personal research on both military history and porn in the same argument.)

I'm just glad someone successfully found a way of introducing the pink sock into a conversation that was actually relevant. Good one, sir.

because maybe our country would support it when it affects each and every citizen. But we are too busy caring about Paris Hilton and or Jon and Kate plus 8.
We shouldn't be there in the first place, but if we fight wars you have to have your country backing it. We are simply occupying the country with troops that have pts disorder and no morale.

The only time dya has been serious on this board is his open letter to a douche thread.

Being forced to fight wouldn't win my support. Our country shouldn't start wars the people don't support.

thank you dya for introducing me to the pink sock dillema

Everyone can say we don't belong there until they're dead, the fact remains that Bush Jr got us into a fucking mess we can't just say "fuck ya'll" and walk away from.

I have no bloody idea how to fix the problem or if it's even possible but I do know we knocked down two fucking countries and it's now our mess to clean up.

I would say give Obama a chance to try his plan but I know asking that on RTTP is pointless. Carry on!

LOL, any time.

It's an apt analogy, FWIW. You really can't just have everybody mount up and peace the fuck out of there all at once, the sudden power vacuum would be devastating.

Also, ANALogy. TEE HEE

You win.

I ALWAYS DO



NATUUUUUUUUUUUURE GOULET

HAHAHAHA...YES!

You should probably just read all of my posts in the Robert Goulet voice. It's how I envision them myself, at least.

Gouuulettttt Gouleetttttt

nuke the middle east and be done with it, jeeeesh!

I just watched the speech.
I liked the manner in which he alluded to the illicit drug trade.

Wrong. Afghanistan is Bush Sr.'s and Clinton's mess. Iraq is Bush Jr.'s mess. Please try reading a book.

RIP Massoud

Al CIAda is rampant in the moutainous caves. Let us use drones and bomb civilians!

yeah, because civilian's are being bombed on purpose.......innocent people are killed in war especially when the enemy is hiding among them. If you read more than just conspiracy theory websites and watch recent documentaries (dispatches, bbc, ect.) it will give you a slightly better idea that more than just civilian deaths are occurring. There are in fact afghanis that are glad there are u.s./british troops there keeping the Taliban at bay in some areas.

I support the incremental removal of troops there but who knows what that will accomplish at this point.

Thanks for telling me what I read and watch.
I only post conspiracy shit on here because
a.) it pisses people off
b.) you guys don't read enough alternative media
and c.) people need to think outside of the box of MSM and question EVERYTHING. It's not unpatriotic to question the propaganda you're fed.

Why do you feel as though you know what we see/hear? I'm pretty sure 95% of the people aren't avid FOX news fans, except maybe Hoser and Conservationist.

If you do in fact want to make some kind of difference why waste your time here when you could be posting on Boston Herald articles instead of Boston.com.

LOL - I'm pretty sure Conservationist has more esoteric news tastes than FOX, to say the least.

I do like reading your take on stuff like this, among others. But to answer your question, Perhaps because I'm anti-Right/left paradigm. It's destroying our country and splitting the populous as each day passes. If a conservative republican hears anything that opposes their way of thought then the other people are quickly branded as a dumbass liberal - a term overused to the point where it should be self-evident of this country's growing gap. I'm both convservative and liberal on different items politically, but I do not buy into the democrat/republican split.
The founding fathers should literally be turning in their graves right now: both our civil liberties are being attacked as well as the American population- with propaganda.
My way of thinking completely changed when I saw what modern bipartisianship is doing to our country, mainly because we are force fed a bunch of deceitful lies on both ends of the candle. It has come to the point where we the people are only seen as sheep and cattle-why not think outside the box and question the corporate owned mainstream media we are fed? We lived in a world of corporatism with corrupt bankers and corporatons running it. I realized this when my father worked for enron and lost evrything he had saved up. The left right paradigm is false, and our government has alterior motives for just about everything, and our minds are poisoned against questoning it through the usage of media and left right paradigm politics.

Here's the bottom line.

If anyone here supports a draft, they can burn in hell

the draft is the government saying "we own you and can do what we like with you"

much like the income tax is the government saying

"we own your labor, you are a slave we allow to keep some of the benefits of your labor...but just enough"

I don't think many people support a draft. Who wants to get drafted? Nobody.
But be prepared for reinstating the draft and a proposal for war tax to help pay off the wars. History always repeats itself.
The Vietnam protests increased when the public was more directly involved with the war. If there's a draft or tax, expect major protests agaisnt the war and Obama will never be viewed the same.

the war tax scares me the most. i think that will be the breaking point.

History isn't a science, we'll see what happens...but there is no demand for a draft. A war tax would be vetoed. IF something like that actually makes it through congress...if it does then I'll be joining the lynch mobs!

So do I. I voted for him fully knowing that he would be sending more troops. Obviously he's a CIA puppet, what president isn't, but the drug trade in Afghanistan is just one of the many reasons why US troops are there. I appreciate what Obama is trying to do and I fully stand behind our president. But I won't be pleased until the Taliban is decimated and the Patriot Act is repealed.

I'll appreciate Obama more of he goes against what that snivelling rat Rahm Emanuel and other bilderbergers tell him to do.

FUCKING THANK YOU

There will be no draft, are you kidding me. How many Americans do you think would rise up against the government if that happened? People will take jail time instead. Stop watching that turd on infowars he's a liar and a fear monger.

Fist, obviously my point on the draft is misunderstood.

As for Alex jones, I don't agree with him on a lot of things. it's funny how asshurt everyone gets over a few statements that the msm doesn't admit

FUCKING THANK YOU

I'm not for the draft one bit. But perhaps if we had one in the beggining of the war it would have been a shorter conflict and the country wouldbe more involved. That's all I was saying..

To make a long story short- on order for an empire or nation state to succeed, it needs to be united. This country is not united one bit.
War has the ability to strengthen a country, or destroy it within.
We are destroying sovereignty and liberties as each day passes. It will be a miracle if the us still stands as it is in 20 years (or less).

Aight, I'll stop posting in this thread. It does more harm than good and everyone thinks I'm a kook haha

There's always been a division in this country as there is today. Remember that the split between Tories and Patriots was almost 1:1. Confederate/Union, Right/Left...that's why political parties formed even after Washington's warning against the formation of them.

The sovereignty of the states is more important than anything else. That's why states are not just "provinces" but fully contained that could govern themselves entirely if necessary. Wouldn't it be fantastic if I could just live in the country of MASSACHUSETTS and be done with it.

Jim I don't think you're a kook at all. Skepticism is very important. I actually think I'm a kook for not dismissing the notion that this country is actually on the right track and will be better in 20 years.

He's a kook. Have you tried his homemade bolognese sauce? Delicious.

No i'm with you on the conspiracy shit. I believe most of the shit your saying. it's just theres no point to get wrapped up in it because knowing this stuff will never change anything unless you do something about it, that's the problem that the people have in this country. Everyone talks but noone acts.

Where's Noone at, then? He could really help us out here.

Alright last post for real.

Alex jones = Christian undertones about everything. he thinks abortion is a eugenics operation. Fuck that.

Rusted angel and fist are right. Posting this shit on a music board is nonsense. I really need to do something about it rather than writing letters to senators and shit.

for awhile i was letting this shit get to me real bad...like to the point where i was developing an ulcer i think. i have recently decided to stop giving a shit. although i do continue check up on those news sites out of curiousity. its still a good idea to stay informed but theres no sense in letting it affect your daily life.

Relax.

Don't worry, Hammerhead will fix everything.

I know that you fucking jerk-off, I was referring to the wars that were officially started by Bush Jr. sending troops in during his reign of terror, I'm well aware it wasn't sunshine and farts there beforehand and I was kinda fucking alive during the Clinton and Bush Sr. terms so shut your whore mouth.

Please try not being a cunt.

Both sides use shit like this to scare people. It's the only thing that works in this country full of ignorant lazy morons.