looks like I drove 29500 miles last year just to hit up your shitty bands at shows.

you can't keep losing money on shows unless you want it to be a hobby

2007 is the last year I can lose money.

That's why I'm moving away. No more free myspace pictures for me.

plus, you're ruining the lively hood of photographers who need to make money!

you mean like those "photographers" who charge bands for their time? I've seen quite a few "aspiring" photographers charge $100 plus gas if a band wants them to go shoot their show. I can understand well known/famous/pro photographers doing that...but when it's someone still learning how to hold a camera...

having said that, I think aaron should charge bands for using his pics in their CD's. Bands pay for artwork why not pay for photos? I'm not saying to rip off bands, but aaron does and spends a lot on going to shows, a lot of times he's asked over and over by bands who want him there, all i'm saying is, if you have a CD coming out, throw him a few bucks as a gesture

there, i'm off the soapbox

if people use one of aaron's pictures in their CDs and make money off it by selling their CDs, he should definitely get paid for the photo. if they are going to give the cds away or use the picture on a flyer for a show they aren't getting paid for, they should at the very least ask him if it's cool to use the photo.

carina, "porphyria" was mating reference to that "other" forum.

I need to do a lot more with my banner ads too. I should be running more of them. last year, banner ad revenue didn't even cover the cost of the site.

the_reverend said:

oh cmon! that's web basics 101!

are you serious about this being the last year you can do it?

the_reverend said:

duh...but i still wanted to make a point

it's the last year I can lose money. after that I have to either not claim things so I make like $1 or so for a few years. you can only claim a loose for 3 out of 5 years.

you claim RTTP on your taxes?! awesome

shit i should've done that for all the sac shows we've done that might not ever happen again...

talk to dyingmuse. he claims SOB on his taxes.

the_reverend said:

i've been quite supportive of you since i met you, now let me correct you on your message board, it's not about not declaring things..it's about not losing $ period.

you've started 07 well so far and i'm happy that i'm helping you, and you know what you need to do.

and bands reading this, if you want his photos for your CD, throw him a few bucks

nice...they're on a label though so i think he might have more legit info to put not just "estimated $20 gas here, $30 cable there, etc."

SacreligionNLI said:



it's a business, one that he's losing money on, but still a business

if you make money on something, you either have to claim all the money on your taxes as a hobby or make a business out of it and claim all your expenses as well.

well i guess it's a good thing sac never got paid...because i never claimed anything sac-related hahaha

aaron ill give u 20 bucks gas everytime u shoot ttos from now on.

dont come to our band practices

succubus said:

Guess we know who wears the pants in this relationship

thnaks for wasting your car's life on my band last night.

You are right Carina. He does deserve something.

Aaron, if you don't want to lose as much money, why not add another spot for advertisements? like under the left nav bar? and allow the top one to be more then 60 kb so i can give you money to put the body farm banner up there.

You could probably make some cash back with new merch as well. I'm about to start a new RTTP teeshirt/hoodie petition.


I don't think charging bands to put your photos in album art would work to well. People use them and leave your watermark in the images and give you credit in the booklet, but I think if you charged bands, many bands would be more likely to remove the water mark from the image and use it anyways... So not only would you not get paid, but you wouldn't get credit either. I think Poison The Well did that with some of your pictures.


Either way, If you could send me a tranpsarent backed GIF of your watermark it would be bitchin. I want to crop some of the RTTP pictures from Rohis, but don't want to remove the water mark.

1) I'm not going to start charging bands. bands don't have money.
2) I just need to get more magazines, labels, newspapers, guitar caalogs, etc... (aka the ones with the money) to pay me for useage more.
3) I need to get more banner ads and constantly keep them full
4) Ebay more pictures of carina's balloon knot. Snapps of that tastey thing would sell like hotcakes!

sorry if people think i was harsh, but i'm not. I'm only trying to help aaron. Is $20 going to kill a band ? i mean photos for a CD I think should warrant something, but maybe it's because i've seen all the times aaron's been screwed with people taking his photos and not asking and using them for all kinds of stuff.

If the pictures were high res on a cd I'd be willing to pay $20.00, those high res photos make for great artwork and promo photos of sorts. Rev once I may a new banner and get a few extra bucks I'll throw down for a banner ad.

Ha -- you said "balloon knot"! I also like the term "leather cheerio".

That's alot of mileage dude. I put about 40,000 on my truck in a year, but I also get $0.37/mile for all work-based travel. Obviously you don't get shite for driving 972457748755 miles to shoot shitty shows.

You might feel jewish nickel and diming about advertisements and such, but do what you have to to break even or perhaps even turn a profit. This site has gotten enough exposure by now that you shouldn't have to lose money.

I agree with the fact that bands don't have money, actually a better thing would be having the club throw you a few bucks for shooting the event, since they usually jew bands out of anything reasonable for $$$ (there have been a few shows where we've gottten a couple of bucks, and it was more of a slap in the face then getting paid) I mean, I wouldn't have heard of half of these venues if it wern't for RTTP, and when Aaron says "I'm going to a show" immediately 50 more people show up, because he's the man!

I've got no problem throwing aaron a couple of bucks for coming out to shows, I mean, think of all the awsome pictures we all have because of Aaron!

I think you should also set it up where we can buy discs of hi-rez show photos, either $X.XX for a single band, or $XX.XX for a whole show and another fee for a fest (like MDF or NEHMF), I know there are a few shows I'd buy discs of.

bands have money, it is complete bullshit to say a band as a group couldn't collectively round up at least $20 to throw aaron for coming out to take pictures of them.

Yeah, I don't think you're going to get a club to pay a photographer to come out and shoot--and if you did, it would just come out of the band money anyway. Bands could each chip in $5 of whatever they get or something. That seems more likely.

sennnnnnd
meeeeeeee
your
moneyyyyy

SEEENNND YOUR MOOOONEY TO JESUS CHRIIIIIIIST!

MAAAIIIILLL ORDEERRR YOUR ETERNAL LIIIIIIFE!

yessssss!!!!

Venues have their usual photographers and they won't pay. Again, I know of photogs who only go to shoot bands play when they get paid. I'm NOT saying that is right, in fact, I think it's nuts when the photographer him/herself is still learning.
About selling high res pics...hold the bus...there's no way would i sell my high res pics for $20 to give whoever unlimited use to do whatever. My point was only that if a band is making a CD and wants to use photos THEN pay for those photos. My suggestion was $20 for a photo. It's not a lot of money for the band who is paying for artwork etc, why not pay for the photos? I think it's an insult to expect the photos for free. I've done promos for bands and I have my studio lights that I lug around, I don't charge a lot and neither does Aaron, but wear and tear of the equipment, etc. we charge something. Live photos in a CD should be paid for as well as who the photographer is.

evidently my idea was misconstrued...

I'm not saying selling high rez pics for only, say, $20, I'm just making an example of a possible idea of selling photos from shows. or having the abillity to pick a few pics and order high rez ones.

or maybe making a disc with an exe flash file with a slideshow. you can do those with lower rez photos (right around the rez he uses now for RTTP, maybe a hair less compression since flash will compress them anyways). I'd love to have a slide show of some of the shows I've played in the past to be able to show family.

succubus said:

If an amateurs work is comparable to someone who's doing it to a near professional level I don't see why they shouldn't receive some payment as long as it's agreed upon ahead of time. Though, if the work is shitty and the bands are paying for it without doing some research then that's solely their crappy problem :(

porphyria said:


Especially if when you get to the location it has guns and shackles and the dude keeps on talking about getting you and the model "pissed".

Tom, if both parties agree, of course they can do it, but I thought you of all people who sent out the "I'll take photos for free" messages, wouldn't care about money =)

Also, I used the example of "amateurs" for sake of my argument..aaron doesn't ask bands for money, and his pics are awesome, so i was saying, the least people could do....you know what i mean?

succubus said:

everyone has to get started somewhere :-D

I put in many hours of free work when I was initially starting out, but I don't have enough time anymore to do everything free. Not to mention gear is ridiculously expensive as you and aaron know all too well.

Granny_Monster said:

[Mar 27,2007 12:42pm - porphyria ]
I put in many hours of free work when I was initially starting out, but I don't have enough time anymore to do everything free. Not to mention gear is ridiculously expensive as you and aaron know all too well.

^^^^
exactly!!!!!

succubus said:

I'm most certainly with you on that he should accept more 'donations' at least assuming more bands participate in donating.

Aaron have you ever thought about maybe setting up something through the site so people/bands can buy either prints or higher res photos?

You should also get the merch thing going for real, even if you have to ask people from the forum to design some stuff and donate it. Have some designs that appeal to broad audiences, and maybe some geared towards specific 'scenes'.

yeah AAron is a cool mane for what he does, even though I only ever said one word to him and he said one word to me, I'm happy he is into the music scene, and will gladly pay him when I get a band playing up here

man I must have spanish slang as my typing language on my computer

mane?

hopefully with all the photos I've been getting in magazines (thanks in part of carina) and some partnerships that I'm working on, I will not lose as much money this coming year.

i think 20 bucks would actually hurt a band more than it would hurt a band member. if that makes sense...

what i mean is like if our band collectively got payed 7 dollars(not $7 each member) an hour for every hour of work we did we would probably be doing very well financially. where as... when i work 2 hours ive almost definately made 20 bucks.

one could assume before reading this thread that it's about shannon tweed

It's ok Rev, you're just gonna have to double that for this year.